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Washington Women’s Heritage Project records, 1900-2000 
University of Washington Libraries Special Collections 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton 
May 16, 1993 
Cassette 5, Side 2 
 
 
Barbara Wright  00:02 
This is side two of the first part of the interview on May 16, Olive Carlton's home. How did you 
meet your husband? 
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  00:15 
Oh, that was after I got back home. We left Bremerhaven, in Germany, in November '46.  
 
Barbara Wright  00:26 
Okay, all right, before we-- now, I'm really confused. Last time that your family was living in 
Belfast, so had-- they had moved in this time, or? 
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  00:37 
Mm-mm. They stayed over there. 
 
Barbara Wright  00:38 
Okay, all right, I'm sorry, and you were where in Germany? 
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  00:42 
I was in-- I was in Frankfurt, Germany, is where we were stationed. And then November '46, we 
were given notice that we had to come home. So we went to-- that went Bremerhaven, where we 
got on the ship, and we sailed from there to New York. Took us 15 days, and it was on what they 
called a war brides' ship. They were all women that had married our guys, and we were given the 
privilege of carrying orders. Now, I know that maybe doesn't sound much to you, but if you have 
your own orders, you're not obligated to do anything. So they gave us orders, and all we had to 
do was just enjoy the trip. And it was a beautiful cruise, really was, but we did-- they had lots of 
little children there, and the guys that were on the-- the attendants that were on the ship were 
really frustrated. It was really a rough going for them, so we pitched in and helped them too, with 
the women and the babies. 
 
Barbara Wright  02:04 
Was there-- were they, for instance, was-- were the majority of the women English or Italian? 
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  02:10 
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Oh, there were all kinds. Yeah, Polish, Italian, lot of Germans, and English. There was English 
there too. Now I don't-- I can't tell you how the English got there. They must have been shipped 
from England to Bremerhaven. I don't know, but we did have quite a few English women there. 
 
Barbara Wright  02:36 
How did the military view German wives? Marrying the enemy? 
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  02:42 
Well, I mean, that was their choice. And that was another thing I had to do in the chaplains 
division, was when they started marrying these foreign girls, we had to check on their 
background, and I had a lot of interesting experiences on their backgrounds and what they did-- 
 
Barbara Wright  03:10 
Give me a-- 
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  03:11 
To try and make our guys think twice of what they were doing. But sometimes it worked, 
sometimes it didn't. Mostly the times it didn't. 
 
Barbara Wright  03:22 
Can you recall a particularly interesting case that-- where you did a background check and-- 
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  03:28 
Oh yeah, we had one that was Gestapo [laughs]. 
 
Barbara Wright  03:34 
What did she do in the Gestapo? 
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  03:35 
Oh, I don't know, but, I mean that's where our background went to. 
 
Barbara Wright  03:42 
Did the man end up marrying the woman? 
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  03:44 
Mm-hmm. But now, when they got home, I don't know what happened. See, they still let me 
come over here and be rechecked, so. And a lot of them was sent back, because a lot of them-- 
now I'm getting ahead of myself.  
 
Barbara Wright  04:01 
Go ahead. 
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  04:03 
A lot of them, when they come over here-- you know Americans-- well, I guess it's no matter 
what you are, you do brag a lot. And some of them were told wonderful stories about where the 
guys come from, and there was no truth in it. So these guys-- or these women were so built up 
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where they were going, how they're going to live, so then they get over here, and their husbands 
didn't even show up to pick them up. And it took a long time to find out where they were, 
because the guys had already been discharged. And that this-- I just went to the kind of the 
beginning of it, and then the government took over. [Inaudible]. Oh, what they call that division? 
I can't think of it now. But they had a special division where they checked on the people, you 
know, their home and everything. 
 
Barbara Wright  04:30 
So for instance, if a German woman came over here, husband wasn't there to pick her up, 
couldn't be located, would she end up going back to Germany? 
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  05:21 
They were allowed to stay. And then that was another thing before I got out of the service, to 
give me something to do, they assigned me to the barracks of these women, these forgotten 
women, were put in, and I had to kind of check on them and make sure everything they needed, 
they got. 
 
Barbara Wright  05:42 
What were these-- what would be the general emotional state that these women be in? Were they 
[inaudible]-- 
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  05:46 
Very frustrated, very confused, and they could speak a little English, enough to get by on, but 
still not enough to really understand what was going on. 
 
Barbara Wright  06:01 
Were they given a choice of keeping American citizens-- citizenship, or were they simply-- 
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  06:05 
They weren't American citizens, no. No, not American citizens. 
 
Barbara Wright  06:10 
I'm sorry. I thought it was my understanding once they married American-- 
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  06:16 
No. That was a lot of misunderstanding at that time, too. Yeah. 
 
Barbara Wright  06:19 
Can imagine. Okay, why did you choose to come back to America as opposed to going back to 
Belfast with your family?  
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  06:26 
Oh, I want to come home. I've been from home a long time. I mean, I was five years old when 
they took me over there, and that wasn't home. This is home to me. Always has been. My father 
made me understand that.  
 
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Barbara Wright  06:46 
Interesting. Okay. 
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  06:47 
Yeah. Oh, he was always sure that I was gonna come back home. 
 
Barbara Wright  06:52 
What-- because it's kind of the-- at least, the way I feel is, you know, where you spend the most 
of your time, that's where your home is. 
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  07:00 
Not necessary.  
 
Barbara Wright  07:01 
So I-- and also too, because, you know, I could see where you would still have some family in 
Maryland and so on, but you still don't have any friends from high school or grade school. So 
what was your intention [inaudible] back? 
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  07:14 
Well, you see, the way the schools were over there, it's-- it was entirely different what they-- 
what you have here. I don't know. I can't honestly tell you why. We went to school, we had 
school friends, but then we moved a lot too, you see, because I had part my schooling in 
England, and then we went over to Belfast, and we moved... Two. Three. Three different places 
when we got to Belfast. So while there, I had three other schools to go. So there, I had four 
different schools. Well, you take all that, you don't really have time to make a real good friend, 
and then when I got to my final one, I was almost ready to graduate. And then I was in that 
music, and that never get-- never gave me time to make any real friends, and also, mostly boys 
were where we lived, and I was a tomboy, I know, and that's what I enjoyed playing. I didn't 
enjoy playing girl things. So I guess, with my position, that's the reason. I never had any real-- 
like you would do when-- if you go through all high school. 
 
Barbara Wright  07:14 
Right.  
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  07:14 
See, I didn't get that. So I never made any real friends. Then another thing, the war-- well, no, the 
war didn't start until '37. But then you see, I didn't have any friends, and what friends I did have 
were in the army, because the women had to go there too. 
 
Barbara Wright  08:23 
So when you're on this boat coming to America, what were you going to do once you get here? 
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  08:31 
Well, I was still in service, so I'd be in that. I mean, I had a place to come.  
 
Barbara Wright  09:23 
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Okay. 
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  09:24 
So we-- they shipped us to-- we landed in New York Harbor.  
 
Barbara Wright  09:30 
What was it like seeing the Statue of Liberty?  
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  09:33 
Oh, it was wonderful. Oh, that was the biggest dream I-- and it came true. And I just-- well, we 
all stood up there, even  the gals that had, you know, left here, and we all stood, and tears just 
rolled on our faces. But yeah, I tell you, the first thing that made us cry: when we saw our first 
seagull [laughs]. 
 
Barbara Wright  09:55 
I bet. 
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  09:58 
Yeah, that hit us too. And then shortly after, we all stood up there and just saw that lovely lady. 
Oh, that was a wonderful-- still gives me goosebumps when I think of it. Oh yeah, that was a 
wonderful trip. And then, so they took us off and loaded us in trucks, and we ended up in Fort 
Dix, Jersey. 
 
Barbara Wright  10:30 
And then what did you do in Fort Dix?  
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  10:33 
I worked for the chaplain. I-- we had a chapel, lovely little chapel. Wasn't all the same. And I had 
my office there, and I didn't do any more driving. [Laughs] Just as well. So all I had to do was 
the office work, and receptionist, and I did play the organ, I was the organist, and I sang from the 
choirs. And just general helping of the chaplain-- for the chaplain. 
 
Barbara Wright  11:14 
What would be-- would it be an eight hour day or 12 hour?  
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  11:16 
Oh yes, yeah. Eight hour, oh yeah. Maybe longer. For me-- you see, to me, if he had a special 
meeting going, I had to be there, so I didn't have any what you say, eight hours, 12 hours, just 
when I was needed. Sometimes I could get off early and just go rest, or just go on a run, go look 
at the stores or whatever, you know, but I had to be on call. They had to know where I was. 
 
Barbara Wright  11:42 
Which brings up another point that, you know, you've been gone from America for, you know, 
many, many years. 
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  11:49 
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Mm-hmm. 
 
Barbara Wright  11:49 
So, yeah, what-- 
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  11:50 
Everything was new. 
 
Barbara Wright  11:51 
Yeah, so it was like, kind of coming into the American culture again.  
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  11:55 
Yeah. It didn't bother me. I just fit in. Well, I think I've been around people-- different people, 
different nationalities, all my life. It doesn't bother-- I love people. I love mixing. But that never 
bothered me at all. I always seem to fit in. 
 
Barbara Wright  12:15 
Was-- because I noticed you have a slight accent, so was it much stronger back then? Or is it-- 
was it kind of like a-- 
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  12:22 
It all depend who I was with. Now, I have a dear friend that was from North Carolina, and I got-- 
I spoke just like her. You know how slow they talk, I was just the same. Then I get from-- 
somebody from Brooklyn, and I'd talk just like that. It all depended who I was with, but that's the 
way I talk. 
 
Barbara Wright  12:46 
I've heard that with musical people, that they'll pick up an accent very quickly.  
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  12:49 
I think that's true.  
 
Barbara Wright  12:52 
Okay. And so you met your husband-- or, your husband-to-be here? 
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  12:56 
I-- well, the-- we had buses that came picked us up to take us to our different offices. And Chuck 
happened to be one-- he was one of the truck drivers that-- or bus drivers, or truck. It all depends 
what they had for us. Sometimes we'd be in the truck, sometimes we'd be in the jeeps. With me, 
it was mostly in the jeep, because the chaplain was assigned a jeep. So they tell me, somebody 
come over and pick me up. If not, I'd go in the bus and Chuck would be the driver. So I got to 
know him, but I didn't care for him at all.  
 
Barbara Wright  13:37 
How come? 
 
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Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  13:38 
I didn't know, he was very forward, always-- I don't know, getting on the wrong side of me 
[laughs]. I don't know. For what reason, I don't know, I just-- I took a-- I kind of rather disliked 
him. I don't know. But he was always there, and then, then he came, and he got position with the 
chaplain. So I had to put up with him as a jeep driver for my chaplain, and that didn't make me 
very happy. It was one of these two that came-- if we-- if I'd go to the club, just to dance, he'd 
come and sit with me, and he didn't dance, and I love to dance, so he did little things like-- that 
was annoying to me, and I never-- what you'd say date, I never did. I just went for-- to have a 
good time, and it was generally with a group. I didn't really go one-on-one with anybody. And he 
wanted to do that. I didn't want that. So then, we that-- went on-- and-- oh, I loved it, because 
we'd go up. The chaplain started letting me get off after the services, the morning service-- he'd 
have somebody else do the evening service, play the organ, and he'd let me go up to New York 
City, and we'd go to the radio shows. And I don't know if you've heard of that right, Diamond 
Jim's and Radio City? We used to go there in uniform. We used to get treated. Didn't cost us 
anything. They used to give us on the house if, you know, if you're in uniform. So we used to go 
there, and used to see good stage shows there. But Radio City was my favorite. 
 
Barbara Wright  15:33 
What would you-- 
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  15:33 
They'd have this big organ there, too, gorgeous organ. And you'd see the Rockettes, and they'd 
always have a good film. And sometimes a state show, they have a variety of stuff. 
 
Barbara Wright  14:24 
What sort of-- like, can you remember a specific movie that you saw there, or... Or stage show 
by a personality? 
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  15:55 
I just remember the Rockettes. You can't forget those. I mean, once you've seen them, oh, they 
were gorgeous. And the organ, that was my special [?date?] was, going, listening to that organ. It 
would come out of the ground and it'd come up. Remember that so clear. That's the kind of organ 
my father worked-- made too. 
 
Barbara Wright  16:22 
And so when it can-- please forgive me, I'm not familiar with this era, so when the organ came 
up, then they would-- it would be played again? 
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  16:29 
Played, yeah, it was huge, and it'd be all lighted up. It was a real theater organ. Only, I knew one 
guy that played there through my father, but I never get did get a chance to talk to him. There 
was just so many people there, I never did get a chance. So I was kind of regretted after a while 
that I haven't, because he was good friend of my father's. Well, then we stayed in Fort Dix, and 
that would be November. You had to have that Christmas there. Then in '47, I don't know what 
was, '47, they packed us up again, and we went to Camp Kilmer, New Jersey. And that's where I 
stayed, and I got discharged from there, and that's where I finally got Chuck. And finally-- well, I 
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guess it's him. We decided we-- I had been-- I had known these guys overseas, and we kept 
corresponding, and they all knew I didn't really have a home over here as such. I had Jean, and 
she lived in California, Pasadena, and I was going to live with her when I-- if I ever got out of 
the service. That was our plan, that that was my home, besides Pasadena. Although my real home 
was Maryland, Hagerstown, Maryland, but I don't-- didn't really remember our friends there, the 
Ramsbergs and those people. So-- and I did know Jean, I loved her so much, I want to be with 
her, so-- and she wanted me there. So that's what had-- was on my records, my home was South 
Pasadena. But on the December of '47, yeah, I went to have Christmas with one of these guys 
that had-- his family invited me. Oh, they were a dear bunch. They lived in Chicago on-- what's 
the big lake there?  
 
Barbara Wright  18:55 
Michigan? 
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  18:57 
Michigan, yeah. They lived on the lake, and I had a lovely Christmas with them. Then I came 
back. Oh, we got-- yeah, we got waylaid. We had a snowstorm, and everything was closed down, 
so I couldn't get back to the barracks, and I was AWOL, what they call AWOL, and-- but they 
understood, because nothing was running. I mean, there was no trains running, and I had taken 
the train. So, finally got back, and who should be there to meet me was Chuck. He invited-- we-- 
he invited me out, and I went out with him, and I never left his side for none. I mean, we went 
out for a couple of weeks, and then he said, Well, when are you going to set the date? That's the 
way he proposed to me [laughs]. And we decided the first of May. So we started going-- because 
I'd known him since the fourth-- since we landed, you know, in '47-- or '46 but we've never really 
gone together. But then-- so then we decided. So in January, we started going steady, and May 1, 
we got married. And I was the-- I had a white dress. I had been Queen of England-- or Queen of 
Ireland, for what they call a temperance queen. And I still had this dress. I carried it with me, and 
I washed it in [?pale?] water. It was lace, Irish lace, and I had two buckets. And I had one of 
soapy water, the other with clear water, and believe it or not, that dress came out beautiful 
[laughs]. So that's what I wore. He wore his uniform. So it was the first white wedding in that 
chapel-- Chapel One, Camp Kilmer, 
 
Barbara Wright  19:43 
You mentioned the Temperance Queen. So when were you the Temperance Queen in Ireland? 
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  20:52 
And that was during the war, World War Two, over there. So that-- when you would come in, 
'37? So it'd be about '37. 
 
Barbara Wright  21:10 
How does one become or be selected as the Temperance Queen? 
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  18:57 
Oh, it was my music, mainly, that got me there. Mostly was because I'd been singing and been 
invited to sing with them in the court, the royal court, they called it, and I used to sing. And then, 
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they got low on girls, really. So I think that's the only way I got to be queen [laughs]. I had 
Mother made this dress for me. I still got it. 
 
Barbara Wright  21:34 
Because I'm looking at the dress on the wall here, so-- 
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  21:39 
Oh yeah, that's a-- yeah. 
 
Barbara Wright  21:44 
Now, did the veil, that's temperance queen, did it come with a veil?  
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  22:09 
No, I bought that thing. In fact, I made it. I made that. I found the head piece, it's just-- it's not 
pearl. It's something like pearl, because I know that. And then I attached this veil to it, sewed 
lace around it. And then there was a-- I had a small hoop that went around here to make it sit out. 
When I wore it as queen, I had a big hoop, so it was like a crinoline, is what it was. So it came 
way out here. 
 
Barbara Wright  22:53 
How many people were in attendance at the wedding? 
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  22:59 
That is something else. It was only supposed to be Chuck and I, and his best man, and my 
bridesmaid. And the-- this couple that I had known from-- yeah, I met him overseas too. And I 
got to know he lived in-- close to Camp Kilmer. I got-- finally found out where he lived, so 
Chuck and I used to go visit them. So when I decided to get married, he said, Please, let me be-- 
stand up for you. So I said, Fine. So he gave me away in place of my mom and my father. They 
corresponded between them, and so he gave me away, and that's all that was supposed to been at 
the wedding. Oh, I think there was a couple of-- no, my roommate, she wasn't there. She was 
upset because I was getting married. She thought I was doing a stupid thing.  
 
Barbara Wright  24:07 
Why did she think you were doing a stupid thing?  
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  24:09 
Well, because she says I didn't-- and Chuck wasn't interested in music, and I had such future,  
blah, blah, blah, all this going on. And even my first sergeant tried to talk us out of it, but you 
can't talk anybody when they're in love, that's it. So when we got-- who picked me up? Oh, one 
of my friends drove me to the church. And here I see-- we see all these-- because Chuck was at 
the church, he went ahead. And we saw all these cars and these trucks all decorated up with-- oh, 
the commanding officer of the post had closed-- what they call a closed base. You couldn't go off 
and you couldn't get on that day. It was something special. He said that you couldn't do this. We 
had to have a special pass so that we could go on our honeymoon. Little did we know. Anyway, 
we said, What's going on? What's he got up his sleeve now? Because there was always 
something going on in that post. And I get out, and I walk up the steps to the inside of the 
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church, and I look in, and the place is packed, absolutely packed. In fact, they were standing in 
the back. And then I says to-- I can't even remember his name, now. I think he's up there, no. Oh, 
this little boy's father, anyway. And I said, What is going on? Are we in the right chapel? I knew 
I was in the right chapel, because it was my chapel. And he says, Well, he says, Just hold your 
breath. He says, You got a big surprise. And the organs-- I even had-- they even had an organist 
there, and even had a soloist that I knew nothing about.  
 
Barbara Wright  26:19 
Did Chuck arrange this? 
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  26:20 
No, the whole post did. The post commander did this. That's why he had closed the post, so 
everybody could get to our wedding, because Chuck was pretty well-known. He was a nice guy, 
very friendly. He took his work very ca-- he was a very conscientious worker, still is. And 
because I was [?known?], and so this is what he'd done, and he was there too, sitting in the front 
row. Had all these officers sitting there, and I couldn't believe it. I don't remember walking down 
that isle at all. And then we-- after the service, after we signed our papers, I could hear-- we 
could hear all this commotion going on, all these people out there. And we came down the steps, 
and here they got Chuck's car up on top of the trailer, and they handed us up there, made us sit in 
the car, and they drove us all over the post with MPs going, the sirens going all over post. And 
we had all these escorts, because everybody got in their cars and followed all the way around. 
Oh, it was comical. Then we came back to the rec-- what we call the day room, where you relax 
and go in. They have piano there too. You just go in, write letters and just get by yourself, what 
they call a day room. And here they had a reception for us, and they had the whole table set up, 
all these gifts on there. It was just unbelievable, because it was complete shock. Neither of us had 
heard anything about it.  
 
Barbara Wright  26:20 
Wow.  
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  27:07 
And I don't know to this day how we didn't get to know something. We didn't. It was the best-
kept secret you'd ever know, and it was this commanding officer thought all this up. But he was 
upset with me. He started crying when I shook hands with him and thanked him for having 
everybody there, you know, being a fa-- He said, Well, you are family. But he says, I'm so 
disappointed you didn't ask me to give you away. 
 
Barbara Wright  27:52 
Aw, ouch. 
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  28:23 
Well, who would think of asking a commanding officer to do that? You know? Never even 
dawned on me, you don't do that. And I didn't-- I didn't even send an invitation to the wedding. 
You know, he knew I was getting married, but I didn't send him that. But this was all-- that's 
what our wedding was like. 
 
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Barbara Wright  29:12 
We're going to switch tapes now. 
 